Curse

Sberlos V · Jan 03, 2010, 04:02 PM // 16:02

First I need to tell you that my english is not good but I hope you can undestand

I know the Woh metagame and the Natural Stride build for Ab but what you think is the best? Or for be more precise what are your favourite variants for the Woh build?
There are a lot of great monk that go around of this section whence I like to learn

Thank you in advance

Bobby2 · Jan 03, 2010, 04:47 PM // 16:47

I won't be caught monking AB. But you gotta respect Mo/A Life Sheath/Return.

Darth The Xx · Jan 03, 2010, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Anything with WoH and balanced stance works fine. IMO Draw is pretty snazzy.

PS
WoH
Draw
M-Touch
Guardian
Veil
[Optional - Dstance, Sbash, Another Prot/Hex Remove]
Bstance

zelgadissan · Jan 03, 2010, 11:57 PM // 23:57

If I was bringing the WoH build above I'd put Sprint in the optional slot, unless playing with Mako of course. Also, yeah, don't touch that linked build.

I personally run a variant of the ZB Natural Stride build with Draw Conditions. Clean frontline = wins.

Reverend Dr · Jan 04, 2010, 02:05 AM // 02:05

WoH is powerful, but is often just not needed. Certainly not for engaging NPC's, nor should it be needed for 4v4 encounters. Where it really shines are engaging more than 4 or when your skirmish keeps getting enemy stragglers added; which are certainly good reasons to bring it.

P&H is still very strong in AB, a single cast will remove all hexes/conditions from 1/4 of your party. However it has less room for missing pre-prot and mandates a prot-heal hybrid.

Aura is a wonderful alternative that allows for a full blown prot spec while not losing the ability to red bar. However its redbar will not keep up against heavy pressure and has little room for pre-prot mistakes.

There are other options, I've seen some LS monks and a few others

Secondaries

/w for tactics stances and easy access to sprint

/a not quite as defensive as /w but allows teleportation which can speed up travel time and give a chance of escaping situations that you normally wouldn't have

/me channel tank, by itself it can be very fragile, but working with in a two monk build both with channel tanks your team should be able to survive inside the base on ancestra/kaanai, during a hostile res shrine takeover, or in the midst of an enemy mob. (note: these /me stalling techniques rely on the rest of your team to be competent, so its not always successful, however when it does work your team will 7 cap fairly quickly).

Lux Aeterna · Jan 04, 2010, 04:30 AM // 04:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

/a not quite as defensive as /w but allows teleportation which can speed up travel time and give a chance of escaping situations that you normally wouldn't have

Pretty much this, I don't monk but normally like to have my monks run Mo/A shadow arts because the mobility is a HUGE advantage when I'm pulling aggressive hit and run tactics in a risky place, like between enemy mobs and need a monk who's fast enough to be able to keep up when we make rapid manoeuvers.

kedde · Jan 04, 2010, 10:52 AM // 10:52

All the time I played monk in ab, I never ran anything but woh with return.
If your team is decent, you won't ever die unless in situations where other 4 man teams would never be expected to achieve anything regardless.

sonofthort · Jan 04, 2010, 05:44 PM // 17:44

I'de like to know why my posts keep getting deleted.

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/User:Smity..._Heal_Sig_Monk

This is not a joke build. Although alot of ppl laugh at it, they simply don't understand it. This build works great for me, it has loads of healing and prot, and can take on a ton of pressure.

Seanybabes · Jan 04, 2010, 07:29 PM // 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

WoH is powerful, but is often just not needed. ~nor should it be needed for 4v4 encounters.

can't tell if joke

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonofthort

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/User:Smity..._Heal_Sig_Monk

el oh el
i heard 55hp is imba

Reverend Dr · Jan 04, 2010, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Its not a joke. You really don't need word most of the time. Patient heals for more than word except when the target is below 50%, so unless your target is below (or will be) 50% there is no reason to use word. When you stop just mashing buttons to redbar and think about things for a bit, word is overrated (again, I'm not saying that it isn't good, because it is amazing, it just isn't the one skill to rule them all, at least not in 4v4 format).

Grumpy Bear · Jan 04, 2010, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

WoH is powerful, but is often just not needed. Certainly not for engaging NPC's, nor should it be needed for 4v4 encounters. Where it really shines are engaging more than 4 or when your skirmish keeps getting enemy stragglers added; which are certainly good reasons to bring it.

P&H is still very strong in AB, a single cast will remove all hexes/conditions from 1/4 of your party. However it has less room for missing pre-prot and mandates a prot-heal hybrid.

Aura is a wonderful alternative that allows for a full blown prot spec while not losing the ability to red bar. However its redbar will not keep up against heavy pressure and has little room for pre-prot mistakes.

There are other options, I've seen some LS monks and a few others

Secondaries

/w for tactics stances and easy access to sprint

/a not quite as defensive as /w but allows teleportation which can speed up travel time and give a chance of escaping situations that you normally wouldn't have

/me channel tank, by itself it can be very fragile, but working with in a two monk build both with channel tanks your team should be able to survive inside the base on ancestra/kaanai, during a hostile res shrine takeover, or in the midst of an enemy mob. (note: these /me stalling techniques rely on the rest of your team to be competent, so its not always successful, however when it does work your team will 7 cap fairly quickly).

Just lol at everything you said...

Why would you go /Me so you can channel tank and then take another monk with the same build so that the team can survive in/out of base? To me it makes no sense. Clearly a WoH is vastly superior to 2 Channeling monks then.

A single WoH monk can easily handle a base hold. Also rarely in AB is it ever 4 v 4, NPCs and people that like to mob rather than stay with their own team tend to follow a stronger team. So again, WoH wins.

Also I am not a big fan of Assassin secondary, I've seen too many Returns get interupted or knocked, for me Mo/W with B-stance is the only way to go. Theres too many KDs, it seems every other warrior is a hammer one and to me, if I'm on my ass, I can't heal/prot my team. Mobility isn't an issue as we always have an Ele with Fallback.

The build I run is..
WoH
Patient Spirit
Guardian
Spirit Bond
Draw
Mend Touch
Cure Hex/Holy Veil
B-Stance

Edit..
@ Sonofthort. As if the build isn't bad enough, wth is up with your equipment. What is your HP?

Chocobo1 · Jan 04, 2010, 11:34 PM // 23:34

I run ZB over WoH. It's much easier to just prevent the damage than to heal it back up. Especially since in places like AB and RA, people tend to C Spacebar onto a person, making Shield of Absorbtion very effective.

I use Dark Escape and Return because Return rewards battlefield awareness and Dark Escape is a great OSHI button if you stuff up somehow.

Reverend Dr · Jan 05, 2010, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Well I guess the regular AB players are now out in force. If I play AB the way the "pros" all say to play:
1. Cap points
2. Ignore any group of more than 4 players
3. That's it, you are a scrub if you suggest that there is any other type of tactics employable

If I play that this I have no need for word. I mean I don't use it. Why would I use it on someone less than 50% and no one every really hits less than 50%.

The dual /me is for stalling tactics. This is something that just goes so far over the heads of other players that they immediately dismiss it as garbage. Dual monks does not slow down capping as a monk caps a shrine just as fast as a regular player; if your 2 offensive slots can't bring down NPC's it isn't a monk problem you are facing. If the opportunity arrives your 4 man team can easily wade into an 8 man mob. No we are not capping, but we are nullifying 8 members of their team leaving our side with an 8v4 mismatch. Anyone claiming that they can WoH just as well through a 4 man mismatch is exaggerating at best.

kedde · Jan 05, 2010, 07:29 AM // 07:29

I know I think its usually easier to just engage bigger groups of up to 2-3 more than your own and just kill them off, or stall them around a shrine.
Mostly, there isn't any difficulty in doing so.

Grumpy Bear · Jan 05, 2010, 09:48 AM // 09:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Well I guess the regular AB players are now out in force. If I play AB the way the "pros" all say to play:
1. Cap points
2. Ignore any group of more than 4 players
3. That's it, you are a scrub if you suggest that there is any other type of tactics employable

If I play that this I have no need for word. I mean I don't use it. Why would I use it on someone less than 50% and no one every really hits less than 50%.

The dual /me is for stalling tactics. This is something that just goes so far over the heads of other players that they immediately dismiss it as garbage. Dual monks does not slow down capping as a monk caps a shrine just as fast as a regular player; if your 2 offensive slots can't bring down NPC's it isn't a monk problem you are facing. If the opportunity arrives your 4 man team can easily wade into an 8 man mob. No we are not capping, but we are nullifying 8 members of their team leaving our side with an 8v4 mismatch. Anyone claiming that they can WoH just as well through a 4 man mismatch is exaggerating at best.

You clearly don't AB and if you do it isn't very often.

You are right about dual monks not slowing capping down, an ele can clear a shrine in a couple of secs. A war would have no problems either. But that isn't the point I was making, as I said you do not need dual monks to employ stalling tactics. I'm sure that the seasoned AB'ers that have posted on this thread would back me up too, any decent WoH monk can do the job in your dual /Me team. At least with 3 offensive team members things would die faster, easing up the pressure on your monk.

Also..
1. Cap points.
2. Take out the strong capping team on the opposing side [doing this means they are out of action for a short while and so they are not capping, nor are you're team mates going to get farmed by a much a stronger team].
3. Defending caps is important too. This means that you may find yourself against more than 4 players.

Darth The Xx · Jan 05, 2010, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

I run ZB over WoH. It's much easier to just prevent the damage than to heal it back up. Especially since in places like AB and RA, people tend to C Spacebar onto a person, making Shield of Absorbtion very effective.

I use Dark Escape and Return because Return rewards battlefield awareness and Dark Escape is a great OSHI button if you stuff up somehow.

I don't understand how return rewards battlefield awareness. If your in a position where you need to use return isn't that already because you were not watching the field?

Anyway the way I see it, is that /W >>> /A for several reasons.

1. Armour bonus from shield.
2. Balanced Stance
3. Balanced Stance
4. Balanced Stance

Return may be nice in a few situations but once somebody knocks you down you're dead. Also KDs do get through guardian occasionally

EDIT: Also stop posting that sucky ass frenzied heal sig build its just plain bad. Barring that theres also 2 -75hp runes must have like 400hp or something.

bungusmaximus · Jan 05, 2010, 12:00 PM // 12:00

Loll reverend has a point, it all boils down to style, reverend's style is HA style as far as I can read, tanking large mobs is what HA players excel at. Stalling tactics work in AB, ppl lose games because of it, and enchant removal is rare. Too little people actually use the npç's in the match. Monks let them die too fast and ppl don't defend them, while the npc's are crucial on fort maps.

U don't want to know how long u can hold off a mob with 1 npc monk and 2 army eles

. I would still run moar damage though, just to be more flexible.

If I would monk in AB (God forbid I would, im BAD) I would go prot geared. Life sheath, spirit bond, that kinda shit. Need big prots (PS, or SB) for npc's that can hit pretty hard. I would advise against draw on monks, because it belongs on midliners imho. Let an ele waste energy on removing condi stacks, eles have energy to burn.

LS or WoH are perfectly viable monk elites, I would advise against P&H when your the only monk tho, when hexes bother you, stick remove hex on a midline or invite an interrupter.

Secondary can be /W or /A, depends on your team a little. Theres not much danger for KD when you run a water ele or curse nec. Meteors can be annoying, but they shouldn't get the meteor off when your rupter doesn't suck. For PUGS, run /W olol, PUGS have a nasty habit of never linebacking.

E Q U I N O X · Jan 05, 2010, 01:42 PM // 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

Well I guess the regular AB players are now out in force. If I play AB the way the "pros" all say to play:
1. Cap points
2. Ignore any group of more than 4 players
3. That's it, you are a scrub if you suggest that there is any other type of tactics employable

Wow are you bad, just stop posting already. You don't knew even one single tactic other than lets gank or get ghostly on the atlar and lets run relics in for 10 mintues. It's obviously no wonder why you rode the bench in wcc, you know nothing of tactics.

1. Cap Shrines(Not points this isn't some stupid HA map)
2. Defend Caps[AB is a timed match, it comes down to who can get the most points in a period of time. Sometimes you need to defend certain areas like Res, because if you defend the res shrine you're making all the people on the other team who die spawn at least 20 seconds + away from the nearest shrine.]
3. Kill good teams[Obviously there are guilds like those in CneX alliance, and our alliance who have people who are better than most. When you are facing a good team, sometimes it's best to kill them so they can't farm your allies.]
4. Farm players[Farming players gives you points and makes them waste time as well, so it's not as bad as people say. There are times when you shouldn't fight but, farming a bad team may only take as much as 15 seconds sometimes.]

Obviously there are a lot more tactics, mostly involving what map is it, but I'm not in the liberty of trying to force something into that thick skull of yours.

bungusmaximus · Jan 05, 2010, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by E Q U I N O X

Obviously there are guilds like those in CneX alliance, and our alliance who have people who are better than most.

gg for giving them incentive to gank us every game, genius much?

Gank CneX all you want though, I hurd they pr0

Dont shit on reverend too hard, I know it's a fact many HA players phail big time at AB, but stalling works, it's just another tactic. I just would never run two monks, olol, people in AB tend to be specced so heavily on defense killing shit might become a drag.

Me and a friend made a team once that was build exclusively for stalling, 1 spirit spammer and 2 oath shot trappers, it was surprising how effective it was. It's just inflexible, you can't suddenly decide to speed cap when your allies are preoccupied with something else, but when you play your cards right its funsome.

Seanybabes · Jan 05, 2010, 07:17 PM // 19:17

how to ab pro style:
1. rickroll all teams
2. cap some stuff after wiping teams
3. get base defended when victorious